Speaker 0:  salt batteries.

Speaker 1:  alright. let's talk about today, we're diving into a game changing energy revolution that might just shock you. literally, if you think lithium ion batteries have been the undisputed champions of the energy storage ring, hold on to your seats because sodium ion batteries are here to sweep the mat. that's right. salt. what's going on with these salt batteries, john?

Speaker 0:  yeah. and i know we've covered sodium ion batteries in the past, but this is, this article talks about, that there's the advancements have made the sodium ion batteries lower cost to, to manufacture, apparently. so, they're emerging as promising alternatives to lithium ion because they offer potential cost savings and reduced reliance on scarce material like lithium. well, it obviously, sodium is more abundant. so these batteries use sodium instead of lithium as the charge carrier, and that could lower production costs and also environmental impact. for those that don't know, sodium is about one thousand times more abundant than lithium, and, obviously, it's widely available. so there are companies like cdtl and byd who are investing in this sodium ion battery development. but just for those of you that haven't listened to our podcast and haven't followed us, just to give you guys some some some advantages. right? it's a lower cost because, obviously, there's an abundance of, of sodium. it actually performs better in cold weather compared to lithium ion batteries, and it's potentially safer with a reduced risk of a thermal runway. now the problem, though, is that they do have some limitations. they have a lower energy density compared to lithium ion batteries. what that means is you need more batteries to have the same energy capacity as lithium ion currently. right? that doesn't mean you can't advance technology with this. and it's currently suitable for applications that really don't require high energy density. so, although they have, the technology has advanced, it's still not to the point where it can compete directly with lithium ion, but i think this is a great, advancement. i think this is a great, technology that we should definitely keep our eye on. what do you think, craig?

Speaker 1:  absolutely. because it looks like, this is second generation. it looks like we're gonna be seeing these in vehicles soon. yeah. i typical go ahead.

Speaker 0:  i what my thoughts are is storage solutions. large storage solutions instead of lithium ion. like, you know, we cover that lithium ion storage solution. what was it in guelph or somewhere?

Speaker 1:  fergus.

Speaker 0:  fergus. yeah. i think that is, this is a much better idea. so what if you have to have more batteries? i think it's safer for the environment, all that sort of stuff at the end of the day.

Speaker 1:  well, they claim that the sodium ion battery has a two hundred watt hours per kilogram where the lithium ion is between one eighty to nearly three hundred. so it's not quite the same. so you're right. it would be bigger yeah. from a battery perspective and heavier in vehicles and whatnot. yes. yeah.

Speaker 0:  yeah. but, again, it reduces environmental impact from lithium mine mining. the other thing and just, like, for those of you that don't really follow things, there's a lot of geopolitical tension around lithium resources. so if we can develop this, there's gonna be a less tension geopolitically, by using sodium, for batteries, if that makes sense. and because sodium is more widely accessible, more widespread, there's better chance for more localized battery production. so we can have production, us battery production locally without having to ship in lithium. right? or without having to ship in sodium in this case.

Speaker 1:  yeah. lithium ion batteries dominate today's market globally. this year, global production of lithium ion batteries is about fifteen hundred gigawatt hours, and the production of sodium ion batteries was eleven gigawatt hours. not eleven hundred, but eleven versus fifteen hundred gigawatt hours or less than one percent. however, sodium ion batteries production is growing and is projected to hit a hundred and forty gigawatt hours by twenty thirty, thirteen times its current level, which is really not up there yet, but we're really getting there. thirteen times its current production. so we're gonna start seeing this.

Speaker 0:  crazy.

Speaker 1:  yeah. go ahead. sodium is everywhere. right? like, it's just hanging out in the oceans and the salt flats. it's right under your feet. it's easy to extract, and so you could have that without the ramifications. so lithium ion fires, the mining stuff that happens that's, you know, in less than ideal conditions. and here's the kicker, the cost. sodium, wonders are not just friendly to the environment, but they also pack a friendly, punch to your wallet. the battery, that's the price. let's you know, it's a fraction of the cost. so sodium ions move between anode and cathode similar to a game of musical chairs. they're jumping back and forth. instead of sitting down, they're busy storing energy. recent advancements have enhanced their performance so much so that companies like radion and natron energy are treating them like the latest tech gadgets. improved energy density and cycle performance. this sounds like an upgrade, we've been waiting for for a long time.

Speaker 0:  yeah. it does. and, and this isn't the only battery technology that is being developed. there's other ones. i think there was one even with air or i can't remember, but, not iron air. iron air. yeah. iron air. but, yeah, this is, this is really interesting. so just so you know, the two big players, ctl and byd. ctl in twenty twenty three announced big plans for mass production of sodium ion batteries. and byd, apparently, they're set to launch their first sodium ion battery powered vehicle in twenty twenty four, but we're almost at the end of twenty twenty four. so we'll have to see where they're at with that. i'm interested to know. but that's that's just from doing some research there that they were saying. so, the two things is they're gonna have to improve energy density and cycle life. that's the two biggest things. but, again, this is where lithium ion was when it first was developed too. like, it's come a long way, the lithium ion technology.

Speaker 1:  absolutely. they're working hard on this, and it's come a long way. and i always throw out that old adage that in this world, there's liars, there's effing dirty cheating liars, and then there's battery engineers because they're always lying about what they come with. so we always take this great with a grain of salt. yeah. you ever worked on a technology project? the battery comes in not ever giving the performance you're looking for. so energy density, as you mentioned, remains a challenge. and while engineers are working hard on this issue, we're seeing even brighter feature with sodium ion batteries. so looking beyond twenty twenty four, we might just see sodium powered marble's taking over the energy storage market. imagine a world where you could power your gadget sustainably without draining your wallet or the planet. so it sounds like very interesting alternatives that don't have the environmental impact that, we can all use locally. so i'm really loving where it's going. i just have to increase the density. so, you know, we're not gonna have this in our cell phone. otherwise, it'll we're going back to the days of that big brick phone. right?

Speaker 0:  yeah.

Speaker 1:  so here's something to ponder as we battery on. how do you think the rise of sodium ion technology will change the landscape of our energy consumption? will it lead to a more sustainable future, or can it only fill the gaps in our current shortcomings? let us know your thoughts.